Hey hey y'all it's Nikki Winston welcome to another episode of the working mamas podcast this is episode 11 I recorded episode 10 a couple of days ago. I haven't put it out yet, but I'm going to. But just the fact that I'm back in the swing of recording Makes me excited. So welcome, thank you as always for tuning in. If you are not connected with me on LinkedIn or Twitter or Instagram, I'm Nick Winston, CPA, N I K K W I N S T O N C P A.

I talk all things accounting and business. Of course, all things mom life, but I also like to talk about leadership development and career navigation under my careerconvos. And today we are going to jump into career convos. You know how you I'll tell y'all what that notification was in just a minute. But you know how we wait for our favorite artists to put out some new music, And while they're working on the album, we might get a mix tape or freestyle.

Well, this is a freestyle because I don't have any notes for this episode. I actually was not planning on recording right this second, but in the spirit of me trying to be more productive with my time, I have about thirty minutes. So I'm gonna try to get this in real quick. So I'm going straight off the dome. I have 60 episodes written.

So I'm sure somewhere in that 60, I probably have written this out sometime in the past, but we just going with it. We being intentional, we jumping out there and doing the things that our minds and our hearts desire to do. So let's jump in episode 11. So I or I jumped into an online debate today. It was a friendly debate, nothing crazy.

We were just talking about careers and job moves from different perspectives. And in this case, was a recruiter who was talking about the effects that job hopping can have on a candidate's future career moves. And so he was just basically saying that job hopping is not a good thing as a recruiter, it's difficult for him to present candidates who have moved around in their careers that he was working with somebody who had four jobs in five years. And there was some validity I felt to some of the things that he said, but let me read exactly what he said because there were some things that he mentioned that just did not make sense. Just saying that the hiring managers don't care about the reason that you move, they just see the moves and they're just like, no, I don't wanna talk to this person.

And that people are chasing titles or chasing money. And it's nothing wrong with that because whether we admit it or not, we all are out here chasing money. I mean, we all have bills, we all have aspirations and things that we wanna do. And whether it's you wanna save a million dollars or you wanna go buy a Maserati, Those are your goals that you aspire to and it's not really for anybody else to judge because that's your life and what you choose to do. But anyway, I jumped into the conversation just because early in my career, was a job hopper.

And from 02/2004 until 02/2009, that's what five years, I probably had four or five jobs. And there were different reasons for the moves. Some of them were because I moved, I relocated from different parts of Ohio then I finally moved to Georgia. Some of them were divestitures. I just happened to join the company at the time where the timing wasn't the best or divisions were being put up for sale, which would have impacted my role.

I mean, I still feel like if you're going through a divestiture or some type of drastic business move, you should not be hiring people who can turn around and be laid off or pink slipped a few months down the road, but that's another conversation for another day. But I was a job hopper earlier in my career because of those things, the relocations, the divestitures, but to be honest, yes, some of the moves were because those jobs just did not work for me. The culture was not ideal. The job was advertised as one thing and it turned out to be something else, or it could have just been having a shitty manager. So just was, I felt like I had to say something because not everybody is here like, okay, I'm gonna stay in this job for five months and then I'm gonna leave and go to another job for nine months.

Then I'm gonna go to another job for a year. And his argument was, well, candidates need to hang on to build tenure no matter what. And that's the part that I disagree with on both sides. First of all, I disagree as a candidate because if you're going to work every day to a job that you just absolutely hate, then you don't need to be there. Just period, you just don't need to be there.

And speaking from personal experience, I had a job before where I would get to work early, but I was late almost every day because I would sit in the parking lot and be frustrated or trying to wipe the tears from my eyes. Like, why am I doing this? Why am I going into this job that I hate that the culture is just toxic? Everybody is taking the stress of the job home with them. Like, why do I keep coming in here?

It's drama, no work is getting done because people are worried about everybody else instead of worried about what we're supposed to be doing. I've had those jobs and it never is a good outcome anybody, for you as the person who feels that way, for the manager who has to put up with it and for your colleagues and your peers who have to witness it and who may find themselves getting caught up in it. So I feel like that's why the employer and manager one on one meetings are critical. They are essential and they need to start day one. And that's where a lot of that concern or a lot of that frustration with the job will come out.

And I do that with my team. And I tell them, look, this is the time that I've set aside for you. This is not me collecting information from you and going and running and telling somebody else. This is me as your leader, trying to ensure that you are happy here, trying to ensure that I am providing you the resources that you need to be successful. Because when my back is turned, when I wanna go lay on the beach for five days with a drink, with an umbrella in it, I wanna be confident that my department isn't falling apart, that the work is still getting done where people don't feel like, Oh, our boss is gone, so let's act a fool.

I need to be confident that you can do the job and that you're happy doing it because that makes my job easier. So I would never tell somebody if you're unhappy, just try to stick it out. If you're unhappy, just leave for everybody's benefit because that's not a ding against you, that's not a ding against the organization. That's just saying you were in a job that does not work for you. And I'm sure, especially here in Atlanta with all of these companies and the way the job market is today, I'm sure there is a company, there is a job that suits you better.

A job that you can get excited about going to in the morning. A job where you don't have to go to a therapist because you stressed out, dealt with that too. Had somebody on my team who was going to therapy because of the job. I've had my friends tell me that they were working in companies and experiencing all these different physical ailments then the minute they left the job is gone. I mean, I have heard some of the craziest things and I have experienced myself some crazy things.

So recruiters, and that's another debate because the question is always, well, whose side are they on? Are they on the candidate side or are they on the client side, which is how they get paid? And I just wanna tell people, do not expect a recruiter to find you a job, at least not when you first meet. Okay, so I am back from diverting a small crisis. My daughter blasted in and said something was wrong.

She had something in her eye and she was hollering and screaming. And after I calmed her down, I got the eyelash out of her eye. She swore that it was like a rock or something that was just tearing up her eyeball and it was an eyelash. So now that we're back, I was talking about, I think recruiters and yes, remember I'm freestyling y'all. So do not expect a recruiter to find you a job, at least not right away.

And I think that's the misconception that a lot of us, well, I used to have about recruiters is that you call them, you send your resume, they find you a job, they send you on an interview, you get hired, that's the end of the story. But I say, don't expect them to find you a job right away because the moment you connect with a recruiter, it shouldn't be when you're ready to put in your two weeks notice, right? It's a relationship. And so it takes time to build and grow and develop just like any other relationship. If you were dating somebody, if you were starting a new job, you have to take time to get to know those people and develop those relationships.

And recruiters are salespeople. So they're probably really good at advocating for people and really playing up to somebody's strengths. But me, I have a hard time advocating for somebody that I don't know. So if I just met you and you walked into my office and we had a quick conversation, okay, cool. But I really wanna know the real you.

Like what type of job are you really looking for? What culture do you really thrive in? What have you been working on that excites you that you need to have in your next job? And honestly, I have some good relationships with a lot of recruiters and that's because I've had a lot of jobs and I've been a manager of people, so I've needed to hire people. And I would reach out to these individuals who I know can find stellar talent when I needed to hire people for my team.

So a lot of the recruiters that I have a good relationship with have never placed me in a job. They may send things my way, hey, we have this new opportunity in case you're looking, they'll keep me abreast of what's going on in the market. I've received invites to their events, whether it be like an internal company event or a networking event. I have some of my recruiting friends who their firms will send me invitations for holiday parties or spring events, or just all of their clients are coming together and it'll be a great networking opportunity. I've gone to lunch with them.

We have exchanged holiday gifts. It's so many different things that have gone into just building a genuine relationship so that when the time does come that I'm in the market and I'm looking, they already know me, they know how I operate, they know what I like to do. And we have interacted with each other, both inside and outside of a work setting. So if I was to call one of them and say, Hey, I'm looking for, I'm in the market, I'm looking for a job. They know exactly where to send me, or they know exactly who to call in their Rolodex of clients to see if they're looking for opportunities.

And that's the other thing, when you have good relationships with recruiters, you'll start to learn about those jobs that aren't even public yet. They might just have an inside connect to the company who's like, hey, this job is coming open, see if you can find us some people, we're not even gonna post it yet. So don't expect to meet the recruiter at 05:00 and they're sending you out for an interview at 05:30. Now that might happen if you're looking for a contract role, if there's an immediate need in a job and you're immediately available, that might happen. But most of the recruiters who have ghosted me or who have called me and I've never heard from them again, have been people who have messaged me on LinkedIn, or they sent me an email or they cold call me.

People who are looking for talent and they might've done a keyword search and I popped up in the search and now they're calling me. And then I'll send them my resume and they'll send me a job description and I never hear from them again. And I just kinda take that as being a part of the business, I don't take it personal at all. But again, recruiter friends are the ones who I know them, they know me. So I know what type of, what caliber of roles they might have.

I know what type of clients they work with because we've had these conversations and 99.9% of the time we have had these conversations when I was not actively looking for a job. We were just hanging out and having fun. So don't expect a recruiter to find you a job overnight. And I think with this whole job hopping conversation, part of it is because people want the glory, they want the big title, they want the big job right now. So, as I talked earlier about this debate I got into online, there were some valid points that this person had made because there's, you have to draw a line in the sand as far as the type of people we're talking about.

There are those people who genuinely want to go into a company and do a great job and be successful and be there for a long time. And then something doesn't work out. Your manager might leave, there might be some issues within the company operationally, you might move and now the commute doesn't work. I mean, there are so many things that can play a factor in somebody leaving a role, but at the same time, you have those people who say, okay, I'm a staff accountant, but I deserve to be a senior accountant. So I'm just gonna move and go to this company.

Even though I've been at my current job for six months, I'm gonna go to this company because I'll be a senior account instead of a staff accountant. And a senior looks better on LinkedIn than a staff accountant. That is a simple conversation that if you are having ongoing conversations with your manager and you are discussing your career goals and what you wanna do, that's something that is probably one of the easiest changes you can make in a job. You're not asking for more money, more vacation, not much of an inconvenience to the company. If you just say, Hey, I'm a staff accountant, I'd like to be a senior.

Okay, title change, yeah. Eventually you'll get to the point where you start taking on senior accounting type of responsibilities and you express the desire and you show through your performance that you are ready to step into that role. That's how those things come into play. So you can go into and talk to your boss and say that you want a title change and you change it on paper, but why not just do the work now and show that you deserve to be in that senior seat so that you don't have to ask for it, but because it's given to you or it's presented to you. So job hopping is not always a bad thing.

And again, I say that as somebody who has been the job hopper and I also say that as a person who is screening resumes like, he was only here for two years. He was here for two years and some change. Okay, he was here for a year and a half. Okay, there's a theme, something's going on. Why does this person keep moving?

So you can have people who have been contractors for years. I've seen people be contractors for ten, fifteen, twenty years. And then you have people who have done it for a few years, it's not their cup of tea, now they wanna settle into a permanent role. So there are just so many variables that go into play. And I don't think that we should just count job hopping out because we don't know the situation.

So I just wanted to share that and I feel good now that I got that out because I was writing a response on LinkedIn. And again, it was a very friendly debate, but I felt my response getting way too long. I mean, the original poster had a long post and my post was about to be as long as his. And I said, no, let me just keep this short and just say what I really wanna say on the Working Mamas podcast. So thank y'all for listening.

I'm happy to hear your thoughts about this topic. If you're a job hopper or job hoppy, I would love to hear your thoughts and your motivations for your moves, use the hashtag career combos. And I like to talk about career combos on Fridays. So usually when I'm talking to my team, this is the day of the week that we sit down and talk is usually most of the work is done is close to the weekend. We're a little bit more relaxed, take some of the formalities out of the conversations that I have with my employees.

And then we talk about everything about work, what's working and what's not, some administrative stuff, if they have any vacations coming up or anything fun going on for the weekend, we talk about what's not working, maybe they did something really, really great. I always start the conversation off with some praise and something that went really, really great. And then we talk about some projects that may not have gone so well. And we talk about, okay, help me understand what your thought process was. Not, oh my God, you totally fucked this up.

No, not like that. But help me understand what went wrong with project x and what are you planning on doing to fix it? And then how can I help you fix it? So I actually had a team member who told me she's not the best with managing her time. And so I get emails all the time from Harvard Business Review.

I just happened to have an email about managing your time and being more productive at work. So I sent it to her. Hey, Nicole, I'm just gonna call her Nicole. Hey, Nicole, I have this article I thought I would share with you and hopefully it'll help you do better with your time. And she absolutely appreciated it.

It didn't take a lot of money. It didn't take getting permission from HR, I simply forwarded her an email that came to my work email for the purposes of those types of conversations. I subscribed to those emails for that reason, so that if there are best practices that Harvard Business Review has based on my preferences, then they'll email it to me. And then I can share that with my team who can then take that and do what they need to do with it to work on some of their developmental areas. So it's a cycle, you have to have the type of manager that is engaged and employees are very much like customers.

As a leader, more than half my job is people management and customer service and making sure that my team is happy. So yeah, I said I was done, I'm gonna be done now. Football practice is almost over. So my son will be back soon. It's time for my daughter to go to bed since she didn't have practice today.

And then I got to hang out with my husband and say, what's up to him because I haven't seen him most of the day because we've been gone. And then we had to switch kids so one could go to practice and one can come home and do some homework. So story of my life as a busy working mama, but thank y'all for listening. Hit me up on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter NickWinstonCPA if you wanna talk about this episode. I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot more comments on that post tomorrow.

So I'm gonna slide in the comments tomorrow and just see what everybody's saying. But thank y'all for listening. I will talk to y'all later. Bye.